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It's All Journalism

Michael O'Connell, Amber Healy, Nicole Ogrysko, Atwan Kwan


Podcast Overview

It's All Journalism is a weekly podcast about the changing state of digital media. Producers Michael O'Connell and Nicole Ogrysko interview working journalists about how they do their jobs. They also discuss the latest trends in journalism and how they impact our democratic society.

Podcast Episodes

#240 - A funny thing happened on the way to the newsroom

Journalists and comedians have a fair amount in common. Both have jobs that require them to talk to strangers, often at length, knowing that every motive is questioned and every word is criticized. Saundra Sorenson might have stumbled into journalism but it’s her love of comedy that paved the way for her current job, as an editor at Cracked.com. In college, Sorensen was in a literature program that required writing classes in addition to studying the great books. A course in magazine writing led her to an internship at the Santa Barbara Independent. “I wasn’t thinking about becoming a journalist, I just wanted to write,” she says. “I really liked writing features.” In addition to “an awkward interview with Dr. Laura Schlesinger when she was promoting her jewelry line,” Sorenson was teaching English as a second language and preparing for a two-year stint in the Peace Corps when she was hired by the Ventura County Reporter, a paper she’d grown up reading. She worked there for a few years, mostly arts and features articles, training her as a reporter. Her next stop was at another community paper, near Portland, Oregon, where she found herself in courtrooms, covering a civil lawsuit against two sheriffs’ deputies in a wrongful death case (the parents of a teenager were awarded $2.5 million) and the trial of a teenager from a “tony suburb” accused of assaulting and killing a classmate. There were less-intense cases, including community fighting the development of a condo all the way to the state supreme court, and when the time came for her to leave the paper, she was asked to write a farewell column about her experiences. Her time in Oregon also led her to testing the waters of standup comedy. She and a friend, an AP reporter, agreed to do three open-mic nights within a month. Sorenson’s roots in comedy run deep: her first concert, at age 7, featured Bobcat Goldthwait as an opening act and the TV in her parents’ house always had Comedy Central on in the background. Her preparation for those show was a little different: She envisioned, and wrote, her three-minute bit as a monologue, not including pauses for applause or laughs. “I remember, when I did get a few laughs, it was almost unsettling,” she says. Now she’s at Cracked, a site known more for comedy and satire than almost anything else. “It’s the best job,” she says. “I can’t believe how fortunate I am.” Sorenson had reached a point in her career when she was considering going into PR “because that’s what a lot of newspaper journalists because you’re always struggling financially. I was reading Cracked a lot but also freelancing for them,” and when the opportunity was presented, she jumped at the chance. She’s also using her journalism skills and affiliations to try and help a fellow traveler on the less-traveled path, John Wilcock, a founding staffer at the Village Voice and cohort of such notables as Andy Warhol (whose biography Wilcock wrote), Shel Silverstein and Woody Allen. Wilcock, a bright star in the underground publishing scene and read frequently by Leonard Cohen, had been self-publishing 200 to 300 copies of a zine up until 2014 when he suffered a stroke. Now Sorenson and some friends have created a Go Fund Me page to help pay for Wilcock to stay in his care facility, hoping to raise at least $85,000 to cover the next year. “It’s really unfortunate,” she says of Wilcock’s situation. If they can’t raise he full amount, he might be forced into Medicaid-funded housing, but only if he can prove he has practically no savings left. “We really want to just get the word out. It’d be lovely to give John a comfortable retirement.” — Amber Healy On this week's It's All Journalism podcast, producers Michael O'Connell and Nicole Ogrysko talk to Saundra Sorenson about her winding road of a career from community news, the alternative press, courts reporting, standup comedy and Cracked.com.

#239 - Section 40: 'Little time bomb' with big impact on press freedom

Journalists in the U.S. are protected by the First Amendment — the importance of a free press was of the utmost importance to the founding fathers, something for which we should all be grateful today. But what protections are available for journalists in other countries?

And what happens when a few bad actors are so offensive and despicable they not only end up killing their publication, but trigger a massive investigation with repercussions so severe it could require all publications register with an independent arbitration body and ultimately have to pay for any and all legal actions against them?

Drew Cullen is editor-in-chief of The Register, a British technology website. Drew Cullen is editor-in-chief of The Register, a British technology website. This is the world after the News of the World phone hacking scandal, in which reporters for the publication, owned by Rupert Murdoch (of Fox News fame), were found to have hacked into the mobile phones not only of the British Royal Family but also the voicemail of a teenage girl who’d been abducted and killed.

“News of the World said it was an isolated incident,” but The Guardian didn’t believe it, explains Drew Cullen, editor-in-chief of The Register, a UK-based technology news website. Following The Guardian’s investigation, which uncovered “hundreds and hundreds of examples” of incidents where simple hacking techniques were used to tap into the cellphones of high-profile people.

Following the 2011 revelation that News of the World reporters tapped into the voicemail of Milly Dowler, a 13-year-old girl who went missing and was killed, there was a “wave of revulsion. In response, the government of the day set up an inquiry to look at the culture and practices of the UK press.”

Following the work of the Leveson Inquiry, named for the prominent judge who led the investigation, it was determined “the way the press regulated itself in the UK was inadequate and that it should be replaced by a so-called independent body, backed by a force of law. They were turning from self-regulating into something that was ruled by statutes.” Section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act was not enacted at the time of publication a few years ago but is being moving in that direction now.

Cullen describes it as “the little time bomb that was placed into the law. … The major issue with press freedom here is that it insists that the publications should join a press regulator, which should then be able to do arbitration with people who are considered victims of press abuse.”

While that might sound innocent enough, there’s something potentially dangerous written into Section 40. “The provision is that if you don’t sign up to the regulator and you go to court, you’re responsible for all costs, even if you reported exactly completely in the right. That puts a huge financial burden upon the press, potentially, and in effect, it is a gagging law, which is an unintended consequence of the legislation.”

It’s voluntary to register, Cullen says, but there are two established arbitration organizations with which a publication can enroll: the press-run Independent Press Standards Organization (IPSO), and IMPRESS, “founded by trenchant critics of UK tabloid press practices” led by Max Mosley, a Formula 1 racecar driver who was reported to have hired prostitutes for some sadomasochistic situations, whose father, Oswald Mosley, was “the leader of the British Union of Fascists in the ‘20s and ‘30s.” Since his predilections went public, Max Mosley has been openly bankrolling efforts to limit and restrict press freedoms, Cullen says.

— Amber Healy

On this week's It's All Journalism podcast, host Michael O'Connell talks to Drew Cullen, editor-in-chief of The Register, a UK-based technology news website. They discuss Section 40, which Cullen calls a "little time bomb that was placed into the law" that could spell dire consequences for press freedom in the UK.

#238 - Trump's 'hurry-up offense' keeps press corps scrambling

The geography hasn't changed but everything else about the White House will take some getting used for USA Today reporter Gregory Korte and his fellow White House correspondents. A few weeks ago, the White House press corps was used to briefings from senior Obama Administration officials before major announcements were made, giving them a chance to digest the information before it was made public.

“There was a predictability and an orderliness to it that even affected the press operation,” Korte said. “With President Trump, it’s much more fly-by-the-seat-of-the-pants, spontaneous. They’re scheduling executive order signing ceremonies before they know what executive order the president is going to sign. What we’re going through is not just a 180-degree shift in policy but really a completely different style even of how they deal with the press.”

The Trump Administration has openly called the press the “opposition party,” Korte says, a “political message” he hopes doesn’t impair the ability of the White House press corps to do their job. “Think about this: They’re going to reporters to tell reporters that reporters are the opposition. They are using us as a foil but, at the same time, they are using us as the means to deliver that message. It’s an awkward sort of position.”

Political reporters who find themselves at the White House have dealt with their share of “cantankerous” politicians and staffers along the way but remain dedicated to doing their jobs. Korte likens the press corps inside the White House as the U.S.-equivalent to Prime Minister’s Questions. It’s not an exact likeness — the Prime Minister goes before Parliament weekly to answer their questions and challenges but without a similar arrangement where the president must address Congress weekly, it’s the reporters inside the White House who rely on access to the president to gather information to provide to the public.

“What we’ve seen in the past week of the Trump Administration is that they’re playing this hurry-up offense. Before we can collect the facts, they’ve moved on to a new executive order or a new policy that they’re announcing,” Korte said. “I think it’s a deliberate strategy to keep us off our toes. We’re trying to keep up as best we can. You see it even in press briefings with Sean Spicer — short questions with short answers,” compared with longer, multi-part questions from reporters and longer, more analytical answers from Obama’s press secretaries.

This administration is unlike any the White House press corps has seen before not only because of Trump’s embrace of Twitter as a platform for sharing his “visceral” thoughts at 3 a.m. but the way in which he orchestrates and uses executive order signing sessions. Obama might have signed an order in private and announced the action later, but Trump creates an environment reminiscent of his time on The Celebrity Apprentice, signing orders with staffers behind him and cameras in front of him. Despite this public display of office, the details of those orders often aren’t immediately known.

“Here’s what we’re resorting to. There are photographers taking pictures of these ceremonies, he loves these ceremonies,” Korte said. “He will sign them and he’ll hold them up for the cameras. What we’ve been doing is taking these wire photos and blowing them up as big as we can — if they’re in focus just right, we can read some of the operative language on these before released by WH or posted on WH website.”

— Amber Healy

On this week's It's All Journalism podcast, host Michael O'Connell talks to Gregory Korte, the White House reporter for USA Today, about covering the first few weeks of the Trump administration. He contrasts the more staid Obama White House to the Trump team's "hurry-up-offense" approach to handling the press corps.

#238 - Trump's 'hurry-up offense' keeps press corps scrambling

On this week's It's All Journalism podcast, host Michael O'Connell talks to Gregory Korte, the White House reporter for USA Today, about covering the first few weeks of the Trump administration. He contrasts the more staid Obama White House to the Trump team's "hurry-up-offense" approach to handling the press corps.

#237 - PRX CEO sees bright future for podcasting

When PRX was started in 2003, Kerri Hoffman wanted to find a way to preserve “great radio shows … being aired once and lost forever.” Now she’s helped to build a thriving network of podcasters through support, innovation and encouraging the entrepreneurial spirit of creative people interested in picking up a microphone and putting on headphones.

“Over time, we created the first mobile app for public radio, created a distribution system for public radio, the first one, that rivals the satellite system,” Hoffman said. PRX, an “early adopter” of podcasting, was a nonprofit media company established to preserve audio and, through a series of what many would believe to be very fortunate events, now helping to distribute some of the biggest names in the format, including This American Life, On Being and Reveal.

Now PRX — Public Radio Exchange — has a system in place to help young entrepreneurial podcasters get started, which can be a lonely process.

“We’ve been doing this since the early 2000s, we’ve had a front-row seat at the kind of skills required now to be successful,” she said. “You have to be marketers and fundraisers and you have to understand the ins and outs of talking to people at ad agencies and know how to talk to designers. Some have that whole package and they’re like a rocket ship. More commonly, producers are great sound engineers, they’re great interviewers, they’re great sound artists. We take care of all of that technology infrastructure that allows you to be distributed far and wide.”

Hoffman also likes to look forward to remain on the cutting edge of podcasting. So what does she think will be of particular importance in 2017? Included on a list of trends for podcasts this year, published by Radiotopia, Hoffman suggests that podcast will be more important than ever to encourage lifelong learning.

“The thing about podcasts is that there are so many niches,” she says. “Compared to broadcast radio, (which is) a curated experience for you ... think of podcasts as bite-sized books. You can go in a lot, you can go in a little, it’s niche. You can binge. It’s got the intimacy of a real connection of experience.”

Podcasts also are a great way for people to consume information without having to look at a screen, so listeners can learn about any given topic while commuting, grocery shopping or at the gym, Hoffman says. Another trend to monitor is the role podcasts will play in troubling times. This isn’t necessarily a political statement but rather a comment on the magnitude of shifting perceptions in the world.

“One of the great things you can do (with podcasts) is you can match your listening to your mood," she said. "We all need that variety, we all need a little bit of comedy, a little bit of entertainment, a little bit of broccoli with the ice cream. The real driver is the authentic voices and the intimacy people have with podcast hosts and producers. There’s a real connection that’s very power that listeners have with the shows they listen to and it extends to social media. It’s both short-form and long-form all at the same time.”

— Amber Healy

On this week's It's All Journalism podcast, producer Michael O'Connell talks to Kerri Hoffman, CEO of the Public Radio Exchange, about a recent PRX release outlining nine trends for podcasting. They also discuss the importance of good audio editing and what makes a successful and sustainable podcast.

#237 - PRX CEO sees bright future for podcasting

On this week's It's All Journalism podcast, producer Michael O'Connell talks to Kerri Hoffman, CEO of the Public Radio Exchange, about a recent PRX release outlining nine trends for podcasting. They also discuss the importance of good audio editing and what makes a successful and sustainable podcast.

#236 - It's the moment alt papers were made for

On this week's It's All Journalism podcast, host Michael O'Connell talks to Jason Zaragoza, executive director of the Association of Alternative Newsmedia (AAN), about why the current political climate might be exactly what the alternative press was designed for. He also discusses the AAN's digital summit, which is taking place this weekend in Portland, Oregon.

#236 - It's the moment alt papers were made for

Jason Zaragoza came to Washington, D.C., in the early days of the Obama administration. His journalistic career began during his college years in California while George W. Bush was president. And now that the Trump administration is starting, Zaragoza is convinced alternative news outlets are more important than ever.

“I really feel like this is the moment we were made for, that alt papers were built to thrive on,” said Zaragoza, executive director of the Association of Alternative Newsmedia (AAN). “We do have this need, especially with the cuts that have happened in dailies over the past several years, the need for solid reporting but also from a point of view. In particular, alternative news outlets have the flexibility to conduct in-depth research and reporting and remind readers of the historical context of an event without necessarily worrying about offending readers by taking a position.

“One of the things that’s been happening over this election, and post-election, is the way the incoming administration changes the narrative in such a way that it completely changes the terms of debate,” he said. “You can’t get sucked into that. The minute you do, we lose, not just as an industry but as a society.”

Alt publications can brandish their positions unflinchingly, he said. “When reporting on something like transgender use of bathrooms or the right of someone to marry whoever they want, sometimes a daily might call that a controversy.

For us, there’s no controversy. There’s one side that’s right and we’re going to come out and say it. There’s no controversy about basic human rights.” Zaragoza is also gearing up for AAN’s digital conference, scheduled for Portland this weekend (Jan. 19-21) after a long stretch in San Francisco. There are two host papers in Portland, each involved in helping coordinate this year’s event, as well as a partnership with the University of Oregon, which he says could draw young journalists to the conference and help them get started on the right foot.

— Amber Healy

On this week's It's All Journalism podcast, host Michael O'Connell talks to Jason Zaragoza, executive director of the Association of Alternative Newsmedia (AAN), about why the current political climate might be exactly what the alternative press was designed for. He also discusses the AAN's digital summit, which is taking place this weekend in Portland, Oregon.

#235 - Is it ethical for a journalist to go to church?

On this week's It's All Journalism podcast, host Michael O'Connell talks to Steve Buttry, director of student media at Louisiana State University, about a new article he wrote for www.current.org on journalism ethics. They discuss the lines journalists and newsrooms need to draw when it comes to community involvement.

#235 - Is it ethical for a journalist to go to church?

People can make all the jokes they want about journalism ethics, but it’s something newsrooms take seriously, says Steve Buttry, director of student media at Louisiana State University.

In a new article for www.current.org, Buttry was asked to do a reported piece on editorial integrity and journalism ethics, looking at the issues of private activity compared to public responsibility.

The premise was simple, even if the issues are complex: “What are guidelines that journalists need to keep in mind in their personal activities, or if they’re unrestricted in their personal activities, how might what they do affect their work?”

For example, there’s the question of whether journalists who cover local or national politics should vote or get involved in their local party’s efforts. It could just as easily be a question about religion.

“Is it OK to worship wherever you want?" Buttry asked. "Well, of course, virtually everyone agrees with that. But there’s a spectrum within each of the areas I asked the questions about. It’s OK to worship and participate in religious activities in the community. But is it OK to belong to a faith-based group that takes positions on issues you might cover? Many more people had a problem with that issue, with that point.”

Some might be accepting of a person participating in a given house of worship and even holding a leadership role in their congregation, “but not if you’re going to cover it, because religion is sometimes in the news,” Buttry said. “If you’re a religion writer it’s going to affect what you do more than if you’re a political writer, where you just need to take care of those political issues.”

Reporters who restrict their opportunities to become involved in their home communities, whether as a member of the local PTA, homeowners association, congregation, what have you, are shortchanging their own personal life experiences in their community, he says. “It’s fine to be president of the HOA, but tell the newsroom, ‘I’ve taken on this responsibility, if there are any conflicts we’ll deal with them as they arise,’ and then if they arise, OK, how do we handle it? We need more good conversations about ethics.”

In light of the recent election, Buttry say he wasn’t as involved in this election cycle as closely as in previous years because he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer last year. Around the time of the election he learned the cancer has spread to his liver and, as a result, he’s stopped treatment. That doesn’t mean he’s sitting idly on the sidelines and refraining from giving journalists advice on how to conduct themselves.

“Whatever you think about the candidate, there was a repudiation by the voters in this election for the value of fact-based journalism. We, meaning journalists, time and again checked the facts of what the candidates said. Donald Trump was not telling the truth. … The voters kind of shrugged their shoulders and said, 'OK, but we want him to be president,'” Buttry said. “We’ve got to figure out what is the future for journalism. That independence we talked about, are we regarded, despite our efforts to maintain independence, are we regarded as the liberal media? Should we behave differently to protect our country from this ethic of not caring if people lie? You can like a candidate, but I think if you don’t care whether that person is lying, that’s a pretty serious thing for the country and that’s something journalism needs to work on and figure out. I don’t think we’re there yet.”

— Amber Healy On this week's It's All Journalism podcast, host Michael O'Connell talks to Steve Buttry, director of student media at Louisiana State University, about a new article he wrote for www.current.org on journalism ethics. They discuss the lines journalists and newsrooms need to draw when it comes to community involvement.

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